Most people spend decades preparing financially for retirement but spend very little time preparing for what comes next. In this episode, we explore why the transition from work to retirement can be surprisingly challenging and share practical ideas for finding purpose, structure, and fulfillment in your next chapter.
Episode Transcript
Intro/Closing: 00:03
Welcome to the Real Talk Retirement Show, where we explore the financial side of retirement and beyond. Whether you’re currently retired or planning for the future, we offer real, relatable conversations about money and personal finances. Most importantly, we dive into all these topics using Real Talk. Now, let’s get real about your money and your retirement.
Brian Graff: 00:28
Welcome everyone to another episode of the Real Talk Retirement Show. We are Brian Graff and Tracy Burke from Conrad Siegel with you as always. And as usual, we’re here to talk about retirement. And today we’re getting into something that really doesn’t get talked about enough. You know, we spend a lot of time thinking about the financial side of retirement, how much you need saved up, how do you invest that money, how you create that income that will last you through retirement. But today we’re going to focus more on transitioning from working and saving to actual retirement and spending. You might call it the emotional side of retirement, because really, you know, retirement isn’t just a financial transition, it’s a life transition, right? We do we do a lot of planning for our career and we should really plan for retirement just as much.
Tracy Burke: 01:16
Totally, yeah. And you know, you probably heard this phrase, you have to retire to something, not from something.
Brian Graff: 01:23
Yep, use that phrase a lot, Tracy. Yeah.
Tracy Burke: 01:25
Yeah. And so today we’re really gonna unpack what that actually means. And of course, this is really important. Um, you know, there’s some quite a bit of research actually, you know, out there that shows that depression tends to spike right around the time when people retire.
Brian Graff: 01:42
Yeah, and that’s like seems really counterintuitive, doesn’t it? Like, you know, finally you can do what you want when you want, but you know, it’s a bigger life change than most expect.
Tracy Burke: 01:51
Absolutely. So um, you know, a quick disclosure, you know, neither Brian nor I are psychologists, right? Sure. Uh we we are not mental health professionals either. Uh, we might need some mental health uh help, but we’re not professionals on that side at least. But you know, as we talk about retirement, uh, you know, feel like we’re not doing our job if we don’t bring this topic up. So as Brian said, it’s a lot more about uh than just the numbers, you know, it’s about the emotional and some other type of thing. So again, you could have all the financial security in the world, but if you don’t think about some of these things that we’re gonna talk about, you could be left with a retirement isn’t that maybe isn’t as fulfilling as it could be.
Brian Graff: 02:37
Right.
Tracy Burke: 02:37
So, really to set the stage, uh, we’re gonna walk you through uh, you know, some things and we’re gonna start with a quick story.
Tracy Burke: 02:45
And this is a story we’ve heard over and over again, and and this is a real story, but of course we’ve we’ve changed the name. Um, so you know, we work with someone and we’re just gonna call him Ralph. You know, Ralph worked for 35 years at the same company, went through the same root routine, and he retired on a Friday, had a party, lots of colleagues, you know, made nice speeches about him, good cake, good good beverages, all those things. Right. Then the weekend passed and Monday morning came. Alarm clock didn’t go off at 6 a.m. like it did for probably three plus decades. Um, and you know, once he did get up, you know, he instinctively went to check his emails, only to find that he no longer had his work email, right? It sort of sunk in at that point. And he said it felt like no one really needed him. Uh, and I remember him joking, you know, that Monday felt longer than any work day that he ever had. Um, so for the first time in decades, he was just really lost. He, you know, he didn’t know what he was supposed to do. And, you know, obviously there’s some data research that says humans really thrive on routine. Uh, but that’s the part of retirement that a lot of people don’t always plan for.
Brian Graff: 04:04
Yeah, so true. And you’re right. I feel like we hear stories like Ralph’s all the time. Like Tracy said, we’re not health mental health professionals, but we are going to try and share some tips that we’ve seen work for people, along with some actual research to back it up. Uh, we talked about it with Ralph, but let’s take a high-level look at why that career to retirement transition can be rough. So, just like Ralph, you know, again, think about it. You spend your entire life working towards retirement. It’s it’s the goal, it’s the finish line. But then you get there and suddenly for some people it just feels weird. It feels awkward. You know, it’s good during your working years, you often have uh that structure, uh, the routine, like Tracy said, work, you know, getting up at 6 a.m. like Ralph did, the relationships with your coworkers, you know, sitting or standing around the cooler talking about the baseball game the night before, um, and just having that sense of purpose that comes with a career. And then you wake up on day one of retirement and a lot changes. And I think one of the biggest things people underestimate is just how much their identity is tied to their work. You know, you’re used to being needed, you’re used to to solving problems for people, contributing to something bigger. And when that goes away, it really can feel like you lost more than just a paycheck.
Tracy Burke: 05:21
That’s right. And and then, you know, I think the question becomes if you know work provided structure, purpose, and connection, how do you replace them in retirement? How do you can you know bring those back and find that those fulfillment uh components? And again, that’s what we’re gonna talk, you know, and walk through today, or at least try to give you some thoughts to think through.
Tracy Burke: 05:44
So if we remove work from the equation, perhaps a good place to start is asking yourself, what matters most to you? Uh really, in other words, your values, what is most important? And it’s probably a good idea, especially if you have a significant other, to also bring them into the, you know, other loved ones into the conversation as what as well. So, of course, you know, what do you value as a couple or what do you value as a family? Um, now we came across a stat recently from an age wave survey that discovered that 93% of retirees believe it’s important to feel useful in retirement. And 92% believe purpose is key to a successful retirement. So, again, you know, people are buying into that and they’re certainly feeling it. Um, so you know, if we if if the desire or need is to feel useful and find purpose, we can certainly start by identifying what is most important to us, and that can guide us on how we spend our time and even our resources and money in retirement. So I would, you know, sort of challenge here’s some questions to think about. What did you enjoy about your career? What gave you that energy that we’re talking about? Um, maybe what did you not enjoy at that point? And you know, what are some things that you’ve always wanted to do, but just never had time for? And then another one might be, you know, who do you want to spend more time with? So again, some questions just to think through as you’re formulating what’s important.
Brian Graff: 07:29
Yeah, Tracy, I know what gave me energy. Coffee, lots and lots of coffee. Um, but everybody’s everybody’s different there. And that that’s a really great place to start. You know, some some obvious examples uh might be, you know, doing things like spending more quality time with your with your family. That’s a great place to start, right? Uh connecting with other people, you know, those old friends that you were always just a little too busy to visit during your career, uh, traveling more or even exploring new hobbies. Those are all great things to kind of dive into or plan for when you retire. But
Brian Graff: 08:01
Tracy, as we did some research for this episode, there was one other stat we came across that honestly blew me away. There was a study done by the Journal of the American Geriatrics Society that looked at people ages 65 to 79. And what do you think was the one activity that was associated with a decreased rate of depression? So, in other words, people were less depressed when doing this. What do you think, Tracy?
Tracy Burke: 08:29
Well, and you said American Geriatrics Society. That that’s a tough word maybe for me to say, yeah, geriatrics is difficult.
Brian Graff: 08:35
Yep.
Tracy Burke: 08:36
Yeah, I’m I’m not a member of that society, so I don’t have any inside information, but you would think it’s playing golf or sitting on a beach, something like that, right?
Brian Graff: 08:45
Well, that’s what I thought too. Well, probably not golfing for me. My my current game is quite depressing, but it’s actually volunteering, believe it or not. So the study found that volunteering was associated with a 43% reduction in the odds of depression in retirees. I found that really interesting and really surprising.
Tracy Burke: 09:06
Yeah, but I I guess it makes some sense though. You know, we talk about losing our purpose after the career, and volunteering can certainly be a great way to reignite that purpose and connect with some people uh in a different way. So I think that that can make some sense. So so that’s probably a good segue to the next thing we want to talk about, and that’s really how you will spend your time,
Tracy Burke: 09:29
right? And we think about it, you know, in this way when you’re retiring, uh, you’re essentially getting maybe 40, 50, maybe more hours back of your time every week, especially if there’s commuting time in there. And so that’s a lot of time. So what will you do with all the time?
Brian Graff: 09:47
Yeah, I mean, as frustrating as it is, I really do like golfing, but not 40 to 60 hours worth a week. Trust me, the back wouldn’t like that either. So yeah.
Tracy Burke: 09:55
Yeah, for sure. And and it’s you know, uh it’s also not like you know, you have coworkers to fill the time with meetings, you know, and calendar requests. And when you’re working, you know, your calendar might look pretty empty or you know, for the next week or whatever, but then it quickly fills up. So uh, you know, though those things aren’t happening. But uh, you know, also if if if you have a spouse, you know, the spouse might be excited to have more of your time for all those house projects, right?
Brian Graff: 10:21
Uh don’t remind me, Tracy. I have a million of them on that honeydew list. Yeah.
Tracy Burke: 10:25
Yeah, same here. But uh, so I would just say, like we suggested before, you know, with your time, some people travel more, obviously pick up hobbies. Uh, you mentioned the volunteering element, and a lot of people do find a place there. Uh, and spending more time without the family. Um, and something uh again, some others do is find uh some type of part-time work. Maybe it’s not because they need that financial support, but maybe more so just to stay active and engaged.
Brian Graff: 10:53
Yeah, I love that. So let’s play this out a bit. Let me ask you this, Tracy. You still got some good working years left in you, right? You’re not that old.
Tracy Burke: 11:00
I’m I’m not. I think I have some time left uh on on my ticker. So yeah.
Brian Graff: 11:05
Okay, but if you were retired tomorrow, what what does your ideal day look like? Walk me through that.
Tracy Burke: 11:11
Yeah, and I was gonna say this can be a great exercise uh, you know, for for for listeners and and and and uh you know your point is mapping out um you know that that ideal day, what what could could that be? And I mean for me, you know, one of the things that that I think about right now that I’m I’m too busy for or maybe I’m not and I’m just prioritizing different things is reading. Um you know, I I love reading and I just it’s not something that I have a lot of time to do right now, but when I do it, it it’s a lot of fun. And then the other thing that that I always and and my wife always makes fun of me for this one, you know, uh sometimes over holiday weekends or if if I’m on truly vacation, uh like I rarely get bored, but watching some older TV shows from like the 19 maybe 70s and 80s are some things that uh that that that I tend to uh you know think of well that that could fill time. Any anything on your end, uh Brian?
Brian Graff: 12:09
Well, I would definitely when I think about retirement, I would definitely sleep in. Okay, so hopefully I’ll still want to sleep in when I’m 65, but that’ll that’ll be nice. I’d like to think I’ll start every day off, you know, with a cup of coffee, maybe sit outside a little bit, just you know, watch the uh the grass growing a little bit. So I mean I do like that, you know, just kind of taking it easy mindset. Um, I do plan on maybe golfing a little bit more, hiking, you know, maybe going to see more live music, something I love to do, but haven’t had a chance to as much as I’d like. You know, things like that. But uh, you know, hopefully I have about 12 or 13 years really to iron it out. But at least, you know, because we do this for a living, we’ve we’ve both started thinking about it a little bit. Well, did I hear you say you you enjoy mowing the grass? Is that what you said? Well, but I don’t think I said it, but I do, to be honest with you. In fact, once we’re done recording this podcast, I might just go home and throw in the uh some music in the ears and and hit the lawn mowing. So yeah, I do like it more than most, probably.
Tracy Burke: 13:06
Okay. Well, I’ll text you my address. You can come over to my link.
Brian Graff: 13:09
I don’t like it that much, Tracy. Okay, let’s not get crazy here.
Tracy Burke: 13:11
Yeah, yeah. So again, you know, as we’re we’re talking through this, again, finding what’s passionate and what people want to do, but uh, you know, a good exercise for everyone out there, you know, think about what a typical day or week could look like uh in retirement. Because, you know, uh one of the biggest mistakes that we’ve seen people go is from that structure during their work, you know, their working life to just no structure at all. And Ralph, you know, waking up and just have knowing I no idea what to do. So certainly some uh important things to think through.
Brian Graff: 13:44
It’s so true. I’ve seen it with family members myself. So just uh definitely have that uh plan, not only financially speaking, but in terms of your lifestyle as well. So important.
unknown: 13:53
Yeah.
Brian Graff: 13:54
Yeah. And there’s another big mindset shift that a lot of retirees struggle with. And you know, you spend a lot of your life simply saving, right? Then all of a sudden you turn the saving switch off and you’re supposed to start spending that money, which is tough for a lot of people, especially more thrifty type people. Uh, and it may sound great in theory, but this can be really tough. Uh, you might feel guilty or even anxious about the money you’re spending, you know, even if you’ve done everything right while saving for retirement.
Tracy Burke: 14:22
Yeah. And you know, that’s where we’ve said this many times in the past, but having a plan becomes so important. You know, if you know you’re within your spending guardrails uh of spending in retirement, you can actually enjoy what you’ve really worked so hard for. So planning certainly important. It’s it’s almost like you know, akin to a road trip. Um, you know, my family’s were getting ready to head head on the road and and and do a road trip uh actually to Canada. And and you know, without a GPS, we’d be completely lost, right? So retirement is a pretty massive road trip. And so you you need that GPS to guide you. Um and you know, that that helps your confidence level in the direction where you’re going. Uh, of course, when you have that address plugged into that, that that retirement GPS, so to speak. So same can be true with that good financial plan in retirement, right? So let’s switch gears a little bit here, Brian, and talk about another big piece of life in retirement.
Tracy Burke: 15:22
And and that’s the people around you, you know, really the people you’re spending time with, your network.
Brian Graff: 15:28
Yeah. So many of our relationships, as we already discussed today, during our careers, it’s tied to tied to work, the people we work with. So when that goes away, you know, you really have to be intentional about staying connected with people. Like for me, when I retire, you know, man, I’m really gonna miss doing this podcast with you, Tracy, uh, every month. And I mean that, but something tells me something tells me my wife isn’t gonna want to sit down with me once a month to talk about the role of index funds in a diversified retirement portfolio. Not a chance. How about yours, Tracy?
Tracy Burke: 15:57
I I don’t think so either. So we can still uh collaborate. Yeah.
Brian Graff: 16:00
All right, that would that would be great. So in retirement, you know, staying connected with people may include your family members, of course, first and foremost, your friends, uh, various social groups uh where you share a common interest, volunteering organizations, as we already talked about, or perhaps even church and your faith community if that’s a part of your life. Uh, this is so important. It really helps to have an idea of not only what you’re going to do with your time, but who you’re going to be spending that time with.
Tracy Burke: 16:28
And we see this a lot, you know, isolation can be a real risk in retirement. And just having people in your life can make that really huge difference. So uh let’s talk a little bit maybe about the financial side uh of this.
Tracy Burke: 16:44
Um, you know, I don’t know about you, Brian, but it’s amazing. We’ve we’ve gone, you know, probably almost 20 minutes and we’ve barely talked about the financial side. So let’s try.
Brian Graff: 16:53
Ah, yeah, but I knew it was coming, Tracy. It’s like that itch that we just have to scratch, right? It’s in our DNA.
Tracy Burke: 16:58
Yeah, absolutely. So uh we’re gonna touch on this because you know, the reality is retirement is one of the biggest financial shifts, if not the biggest, of your entire life, right? Uh of course, you go from saving and accumulating to then drawing income from your portfolio. And it’s, you know, it’s very normal for people to wonder have I saved enough for retirement? And and we’ve actually, if you’re asking yourself that question, we got a great episode on that one. I think it’s episode number one. Yeah, way back around. Yep, yep. Uh, but generally, Fidelity uh recommends as a rule of thumb a 10 times your final salary by age 67. So again, that’s their rule of thumb general guidance that they would, their suggestion is to have 10 times the amount of your final salary, uh, your final year salary uh by age 67. Now, tax considerations, we talk about that a lot as well. Uh, hopefully you have some diversification, how your money is invested, and certainly there’s some tax implications for that. Uh, and of course, you want to make sure you have a healthy withdrawal rate uh that’s that’s sustainable for your retirement years. You know, if you’re going to retirement and you’re gonna take out 20% of your portfolio in year one, you’re probably not gonna make it, right? So four, maybe five percent somewhere in that range is somewhat of a consistent rule of thumb uh starting withdrawal rate. And, you know, you and I could go on and on about this probably all day, but uh, you know, and historically have, but you know, we cover a lot of these topics in in past episodes as well.
Brian Graff: 18:37
You’re right. But the the reality is, you know, for today, the financial component is a lot.
Tracy Burke: 18:42
Yeah.
Brian Graff: 18:42
And it can add that stress and uncertainty, and really that impacts your emotional well-being. And you know, like we said before, you should really have a plan to alleviate a lot of that stress. It’s normally good to work with an advisor. Remember, we do have some great ones here at Conrad Siegel, but ultimately you just really need to find someone you trust and you can count on. Uh so, Tracy, as always, let’s finish up with some action items,
Brian Graff: 19:07
shall we? And you know, the first thing we recommend is to take some time to define what matters most to you, what are your values?
Tracy Burke: 19:16
Yeah, and once you figure out what you what’s important to you, you know, you want to align your time and also your money with what matters to you the most, right? So you you want to think about how do you want to spend your time? Who do you want to spend it with? And just you know, think about how that aligns to, again, what’s important to you. Uh, making sure you have a plan in place. We talk about this over and over. And then finally, I would just say remember, you know, it’s good to do this uh before you actually retire. Uh there’s a couple of good book recommendations that we have out there uh that that that can help with some of the more emotional side. Um, one is is a book by a gentleman named Tony Hickson called Retirement Stepping Stones. And it really walks through in a very uh impactful and powerful way of some of the emotional sides of retirement. Another one, and and um, you know, this is a book that I’ve just uh read very recently. It’s how to craft your your next chapter. And it’s this is one that’s more uh indicative, it’s written for men. It’s you know, a guide for high performing men to discover uh meaning and joy in retirement. My wife got me this one. I’m not sure what she’s trying to tell me in this book, but but it was a really good one. And and and uh, you know, so there’s a lot of good resources out there, and just to you know do some reading and think through um and just be in a in a good place uh and be at peace with uh how you know when that moment comes.
Brian Graff: 20:47
Good stuff, Tracy. Thanks for the recommendations. Maybe you and I need to form a book club in retirement, right? There’s some way we can stay connected. We’ll have to consider that. But yeah, that’s a wrap, everybody, for episode 19 of the Real Talk Retirement Show. Really enjoyed doing this one because, like Tracy said, we’re numbers guys. We talk about the financial side so much, but boy, the emotional side is is so important as well. So uh great episode.
Brian Graff: 21:09
Really enjoyed it doing it with you, Tracy. So for all our listeners, remember to please reach out to us with any questions or comments you have. You can reach us at podcast at conradseagle.com. We are here to help every step of the way. And remember to share this podcast with your friends, family members, coworkers, and subscribe if you haven’t already, and even consider giving us a five-star review if you’re so inclined. So uh thanks so much, everybody, uh, for staying with us on your journey to and through retirement. We’ll see you next time on the Real Talk Retirement Show.
Intro/Closing: 21:42
Thank you for tuning into today’s show. The Real Talk Retirement Show is created and produced by Conrad Siegel, an advisory firm that specializes in helping people prepare for retirement and beyond. If you want to learn more about our work or meet the team, you can visit conradsegal.com. Information on this show is for educational purposes only and should not be considered personalized investment, tax, or legal advice. Before making decisions, you should consult with the appropriate professionals for advice that is specific to your situation.