Episode Transcript
Welcome: 00:03
Welcome to the Real Talk Retirement Show, where we explore the financial side of retirement and beyond. Whether you’re currently retired or planning for the future, we offer real, relatable conversations about money and personal finances. Most importantly, we dive into all these topics using Real Talk. Now, let’s get real about your money and your retirement.
Brian Graff: 00:28
Okay, well, welcome everyone to a special edition of the Real Talk Retirement Show podcast. Uh, we are Brian Graff and Tracy Burke back with you as always. And well, I guess Tracy, um, you and I being on here is probably not what makes us special, is it? I mean, we’re just the regular guys doing our regular thing. But what makes today’s episode so special is we have a special guest. So please join us in welcoming uh Catherine Azels to the podcast. Catherine, thanks for uh for joining us on this journey.
Catherine Azeles: 00:58
Thanks for the invitation. Happy to be here. Good morning.
Brian Graff: 01:01
Yeah, good morning, Catherine. Catherine is a partner here at Conrad Siegel along with Tracy and a friend and colleague of ours as well. So it’s going to be great to have her. Uh we have brought Catherine in because we’ve got a we’ve got what I think is a very fun topic today. Uh, but it is something that Tracy and I are rather unqualified uh to talk about. Uh, and that’s because we are going to cover money and retirement from a woman’s perspective. Okay. Uh so enter Catherine. So a quick disclaimer, though, a lot of what we talk about today, it can certainly apply to all people, not just women. Uh, but this will be a you know specific conversation on some of the unique challenges for women. So if you’re looking for something a little bit different, I get it, but we do have many other episodes of this podcast you can go back and listen to.
Tracy Burke: 01:48
Yeah, and Brian, I would agree that certainly you and I are not qualified, although some of my closest friends have pointed out that I do have a name that is associated with females normally. So I, you know, thanks, mom, for that, of course. But again, this might not be our specialty, but I’m married and have two daughters. And Brian, I think you have two daughters as well. And I do, of course. You know, we both work with men and women and families in our roles. Uh, but really, you know, glad that we’re able to sit down and have this conversation with a true expert on our team. And of course, nobody’s better than Catherine. So, you know, we should probably stop yapping and let her jump in here. So, Catherine, you know, I know you, of course, but why don’t you tell our listeners? You know, what’s your story? Why do you feel passionate about this topic?
Catherine Azeles: 02:34
All right. Yeah. So as I said, professionally, I am a partner and wealth consultant here at Conrad Siegel. And I work with families, not just women, right, on their financial journey. Um, but I think I’ve really developed this interest in this topic through my 20 years of being in the business and seeing some of these nuances, these challenges that women have to navigate when it comes to their finances. But I’ve also lived it. I am a wife and a mom. I’ve had my own journey, um, and I’m a daughter. Um, I’ve seen my own mom struggle with money growing up and becoming a young-ish widow and the challenges that come with that situation. So I have developed this passion personally, but also through years of helping others.
Brian Graff: 03:24
Perfect. Love it. And that’s why you’re here. So, and to further set the stage on this, Catherine, uh, a little bit more and why we’re talking about this particular topic. Uh, if you’ve listened to this podcast before, you know we love statistics. So the first one I’m gonna throw at you is that women are projected to control more wealth than ever. $30 trillion by 2030, according to a report. And that’s a hard number to kind of get your brain around, but trust me when I say it’s a lot of money. $30 trillion, right? And also here at Conrad Siegel, we did our own uh independent study, ran a survey in 2024, and found that 49% of women said they felt anxiety around their finances, and there was a pretty large gap in confidence when it came to managing money. So I guess, Catherine, you’re gonna make everyone feel better about that today, right?
Catherine Azeles: 04:13
Yeah, absolutely. That’s the plan, right?
Brian Graff: 04:15
All right, I like it. Yes, yes, indeed. So we’re gonna do something a little bit different today. We only have Catherine for about 20 minutes or so. So let’s let’s jump into it right away with some questions. Tracy, you want to kick us off?
Tracy Burke: 04:25
Yeah, absolutely. So in recent years, you know, conversations around money seem to become certainly more common. And as advisors like we are, we certainly buy into that and think that’s super important, right? So, Catherine, you know, how are money conversations different for women?
Catherine Azeles: 04:42
All right. Well, so wrapping my mind around this a little bit, I think it I would tie it into an analogy. Um, I know that we often talk about roadmaps when it comes to finances and retirement. I think you guys even mentioned one in your last podcast. So managing money, I think we can just all generally agree that it feels a bit like driving a car to your, right? Whatever your destination is. And for many men, society has kind of expected them to take that wheel, right? So the keys kind of came early. They learned about how the engines worked, and they’re told from a young age to kind of keep their eyes on the road, whether that’s retirement, investments, building wealth. Um, I think for women, expectations are just a little bit different, right? Sometimes we’re sitting in the passenger seat, um, or we’re sometimes in the back seat, right, with the kids and handing snacks around or being a pillow during nap time. Um, where it’s focusing on immediate needs like family stuff and groceries and what’s around the next corner, managing schedules, um, rather than that long-term route like retirement and investments. Um, but I think really when it comes down to what’s truly different, um, I think it’s about more than just money. It’s about life circumstances and building security. And that really equates to financial freedom. And I would, I guess I would summarize those major differences and a couple of points here. And that’s just that women, we tend to live longer. We live five to six years on average longer than men, right? That’s that’s a surprising stat. Um, also, along with statistics, um, it shows that women, we we earn less than men over our lifetime, that pesky pay gap. And it it compounds over time, which means that we also save less over time to fund those longer lives that I just mentioned. Um, and then we take on a lot of the caregiving responsibilities, and that relates to children and also parents, which means time outside of the workforce, and that means less contributions to retirement, less raises, less savings, less contributions to our social security record. So it has a ripple effect. Um, and then there’s just financial transitions that we sometimes go through, um, whether, and and this applies to men also, um, but women can be uh affected, especially if they haven’t been experienced with money in the past. And that’s you know, related to divorce or um widowhood. Um, even just how we manage money is a little bit different. We have different values. Uh, some statistics show what over just wealth accumulation, right? So we kind of align our finances with family a little bit more. Um, but I think so much of it comes down to this big confidence gap that we see when it comes to managing money and making financial decisions. Um, that can just lead, if you don’t have that confidence, I think it leads to, and we see it all the time, Tracy, right? Um, it can lead to analysis, paralysis, or just doing nothing rather than doing something or just over worrying and being too conservative. And that can just have this whole ripple effect on your financial future.
Brian Graff: 08:09
You you mentioned that confidence gap again, Catherine. Why do you think that that that is? Why is there that gap?
Catherine Azeles: 08:17
Oh, well, I think um, if I kind of reflect, I think um, I think we can all agree that women, we’ve come a long way. Um, if you look historically, long time, yeah, we couldn’t vote for a while, right? And it’s been a recent history, own property. We couldn’t own a, we couldn’t even open a credit card, I think, until 1974 on our own. So we’re making up for a little bit of lost time. Um, and then there’s just those traditional stereotypes out there, right? That traditionally men were the breadwinners and they had to handle the money. Like I was just talking about in my analogy. They had the keys to the car. So they were asking the questions and just more exposure to all of these decisions. And I think that we’ve seen, and and you opened with that statistic of this like transfer of wealth to women by 2030. So this is all changing. We’re seeing this in real time, which is exciting. It is, but just because money’s going into the hands of women doesn’t necessarily equate to our confidence to deal with all of those big decisions. I don’t think really confidence is something that you’re necessarily born with. I mean, some people definitely maybe have a little bit more of a comfort with certain things, but I think when it comes to money, it’s something that you build through action and learning and overall experience. So just many factors that play into, I think, that confidence gap.
Tracy Burke: 09:45
Yeah, that’s a lot of intriguing stuff you just shared there. So I guess a natural follow-up question would be so, you know, how do you recommend that women then build that confidence and grow that confidence?
Catherine Azeles: 09:60
Yeah, so I guess there’s a lot of different ways to grow your confidence. But I think if I really were to boil down to three things, action items, it would be experience, education, and overall exposure through community. Um, and what I mean by experience is it just means getting that experience with managing your money. Some of this happens naturally, right? Like we have bills to pay, and you have some of those things you can’t avoid, right? Adulting. Um, but some of it’s unnatural and you have to take the action to do those things, like increasing your 401k savings, uh, setting up your estate plan. Um, so intentional steps like that. Um, but I think really what is important is it’s okay to start small and not get overwhelmed. It’s not gonna happen overnight. Um, and so baby steps. Um, so what that could look like is creating a budget. And I know that’s a really unpopular suggestion. Um, but maybe I wouldn’t even say um, you know, you don’t have to have a hard line budget, but just being more aware with where your money is going is really important. Um, it’s again not a fun, but very empowering step to know what’s coming in and be aware of that and then what’s going out and where, you know, some opportunities exist. Also, with budgeting, what throws us off is just often those life curveballs. We all have them, right? Um, but some can knock you off your feet more than others. And so you want to make sure you have a good foundation set in place. Um, and so opening a high yield savings account, for example, um, having that emergency fund and having your basic insurances addressed. That’s again all foundational so that something comes up in life, it always does, it’s not going to, you know, it might just be a little bit of a punch, but it’s not gonna knock you on your feet. So um I think generally it’s just getting a handle on your money. Um, when you do do that, you become more confident. And again, it’s baby steps. But then I would say educationally, you want to um ask questions, right? Ask the questions. There’s no dumb questions. Um, and maybe read you know, a personal finance book. I have lots to recommend. But um, I also am a big fan of podcasts, shockingly, right? I’m on one right now. Um, but I think just listening um or reading, however you’re you like to take in your information um and take a course. And some of it seems a little maybe foreign at first, or you’re like, I don’t know, but it does the dots start to connect over time. And you know, Google, the internet is a powerful tool and and AI is helpful to sum it all down for you, summarize it for you. So I think those are a lot of uh the tips on the education side. There’s just a lot of resources, great resources online. So try to build that knowledge base. Um, and again, it can be it doesn’t happen overnight. It’s it’s gradual and over time. And then I said that last point about community. This looks a little bit different for everyone. It might just be bringing up a money topic at your next girls’ night or book club or just talking with your girlfriends um about you know what they’re doing, or just challenges that you’re seeing, or or have you considered this, or and just kind of just uh sharing. Um, and maybe there’s someone in your family that you can talk to or a colleague or a financial advisor. But I think just having that community around you to do a little gut check against yourself to talk money is a big time confidence booster.
Tracy Burke: 13:50
So, this of course is the real talk retirement show. And so let’s focus on the topic of retirement uh for a few minutes. So, Catherine, your mind, you know, does retirement planning look any different for women versus men?
Catherine Azeles: 14:06
That’s a tough question. So I think a lot of the retirement guidance out there is pretty standard and it holds up for men and women, right? Those general rules of thumb, like start start saving early, right? Compounding interest is powerful. Try to hit that target, general target of about 15%, putting away 15%. Um, keep saving throughout your career. Um, and again, that can be hard with women because we do have those gaps as we care for others. Um, but there are a couple of unique considerations, um, considerations to take into account. Well, we already talked about is living us living longer. This can impact how much we need to save, which is typically more than men. Even our health care and retirement cost more. Um, and sometimes we take those career breaks, and when we re-enter the workforce, we might need to supercharge our retirement savings. So having that factored into my into your mind as you’re putting money away and um trying to hit those goals. Uh, the other retirement consideration is the dynamics in your relationship. This is a little, um, it’s it’s it’s really, I would say this is an important topic, I think, because um if you’re a woman out there and you’re just listening, maybe you’re in the car with your significant other right now, and um you’re maybe you’re coming up on retirement or retired already, um, and you just don’t have that solid foundation of your financial situation, maybe that’s just been in your spouse’s lane, or you’ve just been handling the day-to-day and and or it’s just not of interest to you, which we hear all the time. I definitely recommend that you put this as a priority and understand where you’re at um and talk to your partner because if something happens to them, you don’t want to be totally lost. Trust me. I’ve seen this, we’ve seen it, Tracy, we’ve unraveled this. And um, I for I just had a story comes to mind where a widower who lost her spouse, he he was driving um with her with her child in the car and he had a massive heart attack. And it was the um, it was such a hard call to get. But then seeing the fallout from her end, she brought in a huge box of statements that had just been accumulating. Um, and she had to dive in. Um, and thankfully, we we really were able to help take a lot of that off of her. But it did take us three hours to go through those statements with her um and just kind of fill her in, educate her. Um, and she was just busy with life and the finances were again like his responsibility. It was his interest. So she did pick up the pieces with our help, but it added to her stress during an already extremely stressful time. And I think the other thing when when it comes to all this, is it’s an important topic after all, is investing. So I want to touch on this. Um, and and uh I have to give a shout out to us ladies because man, guess what? The data shows that us women are traditionally better investors historically. Um, women’s portfolios tend to outperform men’s by 1.8% in one study over a three-year time period. And you’re probably thinking, well, why would that be? Why would that occur? Um, well, we I it it shows that we tend to trade less and diversify more and stick to those long-term strategies. Um, while sometimes we’ll see with men that they’re more prone to over trading or market timing, speculative type things. Um, and I can relate to this because I I think about client meetings and usually it is it is the men coming in to talk about the most recent hot trend. Uh, and I have to even remind my husband of this and these things. Um, he’s, you know, when that meme stock thing was going on, I was fending off his questions left and right. So um it’s very common. But I think the most important thing with this is to align all these pieces together. Um, and you’re having your goals and align it with your investments and your plans and see what you’re really trying to accomplish.
Brian Graff: 18:29
Great stuff, Catherine. Tracy, you noticed how she mentioned twice that women outlive men. I think she’s trying to rub that in our faces a little bit, but uh that’s okay. That’s the only way I would have it. That’s all good. And of course, they’re smarter, better investors. We already knew that. So yeah, thanks, Catherine. That’s great stuff. And we know we only have you for uh, you know, a few more minutes and we really want to maximize the time. So if it’s okay with you, maybe let’s jump into our rapid fire mailbag. Uh, these are questions we actually receive from women uh through our Perspectives women focused newsletter, Catherine. So are you up for it? Always. All right, here we go. So let’s go with question number one. Catherine, is it better to pay down debt or save for retirement as a primary focus?
Catherine Azeles: 19:12
We get this question a lot, and I understand the thought process here. But um, and I remember even asking myself this question when I graduated from college. Um, but I think the answer really, you want to compartmentalize it, but you can’t. You have to, the answer is really you have to do both strategically. Um, so you want to make sure you’re getting your match, your employer match. Um, but then pay down high interest debt. Um, and you know, we all know there’s, you know, there’s kind of like good, bad, good debt and bad debt. Um, so you want to make sure you take care of that bad debt, um, you know, particularly credit cards with those high interest rates. And then um increase savings, maybe that’s with raises that you reroute to um you to your retirement plan or opt into your retirement plan’s auto-increase option, uh, where it will automatically increase by say 1% a year. Um, so again, just autopiloting things.
Tracy Burke: 20:08
So you just mentioned investing in you know in a 401k and a workplace plan. Where else should folks invest?
Catherine Azeles: 20:16
Yeah, again, another question that we get, right? So um maybe you’re getting your employer match and you, or maybe you’re maxing out your retirement plan, but you’re like, well, what else can I do to set myself up for the future? And and I think we as advisors, we talk about diversification a lot with investing, but it can also be very beneficial to diversify from the tax perspective. Um, we call it the tax triangle. Um, so it’s good to have different buckets because they all have different um tax advantages. And um, so that that’s something to be aware of. Um, most people have most of their savings in those qualified dollars, like the IRAs and the 401ks of the world. But there’s a lot of other options out there too. Um, there’s the Roth uh strategy, there’s brokerage accounts, uh, high yield savings accounts for emergencies, and all those are good options. And um, and then there’s just different buckets for specific saving needs that you might have. Like if you have a child or a grandchild that you’re looking to save for um additional education, the the 529 type bucket would be a good one to consider for the tax benefits there, but all have a place in a solid, a solid financial plan.
Brian Graff: 21:37
Yeah, great. And I think that those, I think everybody can see those first two questions that came in through your perspective’s newsletter, they could have been asked by a man as well. So, and your answers would be a yeah, and your answers were appropriate for everyone. And I think this third one is no different. We’ll we’ll end on this one, Catherine. How much should we have saved in an emergency fund for life’s unexpected?
Catherine Azeles: 21:56
All right. Well, yeah. So this again isn’t one of those questions. There’s, you know, a standard answer, right? The general rule of thumb is we suggest three to six months of expenses, but it’s not a bad idea, especially for women, to really kind of hit that six month target. Um, and then there’s just personal preferences. Um, I always say, you know, there’s the mental side of what we do, and there’s a math side of what we do. So the math side would maybe say three to six months of expenses, but there’s just what you prefer and feel comfortable with. I have clients that have one year plus set aside of their income as they enter retirement because that’s what allows them to sleep comfortably at night. Um, and so I would say as long as you’re not being too conservative, right? We don’t want all your money under the mattress either, because then you’re just losing losing your purchasing power um over time through inflation. Um, but I think as long as you’re not being too conservative and doing what, um doing, doing the, you know, the broad recommendations here with most of your funds, I’m good with that extra cushion.
Brian Graff: 22:58
Yeah. Thanks so much, Catherine. Yeah, I’d love this mailbag concept. This is something new we’re trying. So if any listeners out there have a question for us, please remember to submit those to podcast at conradsegal.com. So as we wrap up today, as we always like to do, let’s finish with some action items. Tracy, you want to kick us off?
Tracy Burke: 23:19
Yeah, so so obviously we heard a lot of there, there are similarities between men and women in planning, right? But again, some unique things to consider. And uh the the one um, you know, I took some notes here where you’re talking about building confidence, you know, that big thing about how to build in confidence. And you mentioned three things. So just want to reiterate that and and give our listeners, you know, that sort of you know, to-do list or think about uh the three things that were mentioned. The first one was gaining experience, you talked about, um, you know, with that, and that’s with managing money. And it’s okay to start small now, right? Uh, education was a second part of that, just in that learning mindset and putting yourself in that environment where you can learn and grow. And then the third one, which which is really interesting, is the community, right? You know, just uh you know, just surrounding yourself with others that are in a similar situation uh that you might be in and and able to learn from each other. So I thought those were very three power powerful items.
Brian Graff: 24:17
For sure. And then going back to you know, saving for retirement considerations, remember that, as we’ve said a few times already, women do tend to live longer and and sometimes will have to take breaks during their careers. So make sure uh to coordinate your plans with family. You may need to save a little bit more in certain times of your life, and just more important than anything, keep on investing, keep on saving, and uh you’ll be you’ll be happy you did in the end. So, any anything else, Catherine? Anything we missed?
Catherine Azeles: 24:44
That was a great summary. That was you, thanks for summarizing all of that. I I’m glad there were some takeaways. Um, but I think really uh one of those points was the community. So if anyone wants to keep learning and educating and surrounding themselves with a community, we had that perspective newsletter and community out there. Um, we do education, monthly newsletter, um, and we have this community growing. Um, we also do some events, and again, it’s just a little bit more of a women’s focused uh education. So um the link will be in the show notes in case that’s of interest to any of our listeners.
Brian Graff: 25:20
Okay, perfect. Thank you. Yeah, thanks again for joining us, Catherine and uh Tracy, as always. And listeners, please reach out to us again. Questions, comments. Remember, podcast at conradseagle.com. We are truly here to help us. What we love to do, let us let us help you on your journey. And please, if you like the podcast, this episode or or all the wonderful episodes, uh, please share them with friends, family, coworkers. And if you’re so inclined, give us a five-star review and make sure to subscribe. All right, well, until next time, great seeing you both. Catherine, come visit us again soon. I’ll do. Thanks.
Welcome: 25:55
Thank you for tuning into today’s show. The Real Talk Retirement Show is created and produced by Conrad Siegel, an advisory firm that specializes in helping people prepare for retirement and beyond. If you want to learn more about our work or meet the team, you can visit conradsegal.com. Information on this show is for educational purposes only and should not be considered personalized investment, tax, or legal advice. Before making decisions, you should consult with the appropriate professionals for advice that is specific to your situation.